Some critical words about the beta-tester engagement

[Arbelzapf]

as not everyone knows to for example get a logfile.

I know I'm the one who wrote a very long message detailing how the current situation is not entirely the fault of the testers, but I have to side with no_spam_for_me here.

Pulling a log is not rocket science, especially not on android. There is nothing hard about it, there is nothing confusing about it (apart from the very content of the log itself, maybe), and if you don't already know how to do it, the information is a 3 second google away. Plus, helpful people on the forums have the continuing patience to post relevant guides whereever neccessary.

And if you're taking part in a test like this, and lack the means to actually contribute helpful feedback, chances are you're just in for the free stuff, which is the very center of the complaints in this thread.

Consider that everyone who applied for being a tester potentially took up a slot for kernel guru/rom developer that could have been very active and helpful to both the community and the vendors.

Of course this is a very broad argument (and it's not directed at you as a person, ssspacman. I hope we're clear about that ), but even if you lack the knowledge to provide basic debugging information now, it would just be "good manners" to learn something new instead of sitting there and waiting to be spoonfed.



These are big words from someone who arguably could have been more active himself, I know. It's hard to "compete" with no_spam's incredibly detailed stress tests and video setups and he's probably spent the most time in here and helped others wherever possible. I greatly appreciate that.

[ssspacman]

Oman should not have picked me then as I clearly stated I am not a rom developer. In another thread there is now clear instructions by Oman how to do this. That information should have been there when askng for logfile. Without proper instructions some of us cannot contritibute in a right way. I have however tryed to help as much that is possible within my knowledge.

[Arbelzapf]

Oman should not have picked me then as I clearly stated I am not a rom developer.

I did that, too. Don't get me wrong, I did not mean to attack you, not at all.


I don't know what oman's critera for choosing testers were. Maybe he just picked the first 20, maybe he based it on how likeable the applications were.

I can't say he should have been more restrictive and keep a straight face, because when I wrote him back then, I had ~15 posts on this forum and "nothing to show". I've been lurking here for quite a while (since I bought my mk808), but for all he knew, I could have been a random "deal-hunter" who leeches off communities for free stuff.

So a part of me agrees, maybe there should have been more restrictions on who can apply for testing. But since forum activity is usually a part of such restrictions, I'm quite sure I wouldn't have been taking part in this case.

Oman clearly took a gamble and only he can decide if it paid off. In my case, I can just hope I'm giving back enough feedback. It certainly tied me to this community and it's been very pleasant to be active here. I'll certainly stick around.

On the other hand, I don't see the point in "requiring knowledge about pulling logs". That's comparable to requiring people to know how to iron a t-shirt. There are people who know how to do it and there are people who don't. But you can learn it in a matter of minutes and then you're good to go. Why make an arbitrary restriction about stuff you can pick up on the fly?

As I said, there's nothing hard about it. It's just slightly more involving than just going on the forums and posting "X doesn't work, halp pls"

Without proper instructions some of us cannot contritibute in a right way. I have however tryed to help as much that is possible within my knowledge.

Yes, in a perfectly organized test, there would have been some document that outlines how feedback is supposed to be given and what tools are needed (and how to use them).

In the test we got, it may have required an open mind and some common sense. When people are posting logs left and right and you don't know how to do the same, you just adapt.

Information is readily available and people are generally helpful, so even if you're somehow incapable of typing "How to get a log in android" in a google search bar and clicking on the first result, a nice PM or a forum post will almost certainly make someone else google a guide for you.

I get your point. Noone is born a wizard, and that shouldn't stop someone from taking part in such a test and being part of a community. But while "not knowing X" is perfectly excusable, "sitting there and doing nothing about it" isn't.


I don't really feel comfortable writing such a rant and I hope I don't come off as arrogant/rude.
And again, this is not directed towards you, ssspacman, but towards a general attitude that -at its core- means "insisting that others spend their time instead of me spending mine" when it is so incredibly easy to help yourself.

[no_spam_for_me]

HY guys, as I wrote
=>

... All these points I suppose, if you enroll as a tester.

No need to give the ball back to oman !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you are not able to test and log, you are the wrong guys for that.

[ssspacman]

Arbelzapf.
Understand your fair point.

I did however google android log file but the results shown were not easy instructions.

Omans instruction post:

http://www.freaktab.com/showthread.php?16484-R89-Hardware-Thermal-case-issue-feedback-here&p=228031&viewfull=1#post228031

was however very easy to follow. Now that I have learnt how to "ride a bike" it will be very easy "to ride a bike" next time needed (I did not like that ironing thing)

I could not get the firmware to update untill I tryed it your way, the other way around and it updated instantly.
- Connect the OTG cable to computer and R89
- Press the Button in the AV connector
- Plug in the PSU

[convict]

FYI my old pc died and i bought a new one which has a problem with temperature and i try to find out what's wrong with it. I might need a bigger cooler than the stock intel one. I have stabilized the temperatures for now so i will be more active as an R89 tester. Also i will make the review i promised to everyone. Because of this incident (my old pc death) i have left many unfinished business and now i'm trying to cope with them all.

I have to say that Bob said the right thing a few posts back. He said that there should be a thread that only testers should be in and i totally agree with that

[bluesmanuk]

Next time I will make a forum that ONLY the testers can post in. Everyone can read but cannot post. This will help keep it clean. That's what I can offer up as far as the forum goes.

In fact I could make this change right now. Move all the posts to a new test forum and lock posting to the testers. But what I would not have time to do it go through the posts and remove unneeded posts.

Bob

That would be a shame as there are some that might offer thoughts and insight even if they don't have the product.

As one of the early testers of the R28, the same thing is happening there. Many have received the boxes but the number of regular contributors is small in comparison.

However, I think that is to be expected as there will be those that will just want to get their hands on something on the cheap or for free.

Perhaps a different approach for the vendors that are sending out these test boxes is to try and establish validity by the contributions made at that point in time in general.

It could even be be that the prospective tester be asked to show some evidence of their worth rather than send out to the first that ask.

Even then you will always get some that won't take part but the chances will likely be reduced.

[oman]

That would be a shame as there are some that might offer thoughts and insight even if they don't have the product.

As one of the early testers of the R28, the same thing is happening there. Many have received the boxes but the number of regular contributors is small in comparison.

However, I think that is to be expected as there will be those that will just want to get their hands on something on the cheap or for free.

Perhaps a different approach for the vendors that are sending out these test boxes is to try and establish validity by the contributions made at that point in time in general.

It could even be be that the prospective tester be asked to show some evidence of their worth rather than send out to the first that ask.

Even then you will always get some that won't take part but the chances will likely be reduced.

At first,I chose the testers by the evidence they show to me,and also I keep all the 20 ones' evidence..Next time,I think one of the most important things to be considered is frequency response..

[no_spam_for_me]

At first,I chose the testers by the evidence they show to me,and also I keep all the 20 ones' evidence..Next time,I think one of the most important things to be considered is frequency response..

And maybe let them answer some test-questions to determine their knowledge...

[Talas]

Think this really going no where..yes some people my not have the experience of others but my oberservation is you need a broad range of testers from Rom creators,Engineering enthuisasts,Tech minded people right down to the end user as theres always room for someone to see things in a different light so to speak and after 30 years of experience..if you have a mix the results will be so much better because then what ever tech your trying to develop will looked at from every possible perspective and the end user when gets the final product can perhaps with some wisdom can see common sense has prevailed right through the Dev process.
You are also forgetting all the delays with actually getting it which is no ones fault but time is precious and again it must be noted we all lead our lives at different paces and as Oman has noted even he may have thought the process through or been allowed to give the project as much time as he would have wanted.

[ssspacman]

Nice words
This is my fift android tv box/stick. Started wit a10 mk802, rk3088, rk3188, amlogic 802 and now rk3288.
I know what to expect from the boxes as an end users point of view.

[Arbelzapf]

Omans instruction post (...) was however very easy to follow. Now that I have learnt how to "ride a bike" it will be very easy "to ride a bike" next time needed

Okay, that's what counts.

I could not get the firmware to update untill I tryed it your way, the other way around and it updated instantly.
- Connect the OTG cable to computer and R89
- Press the Button in the AV connector
- Plug in the PSU

Cool!

[raxy]

alternative beta test method...

please have a look at what was tried here for the Orion R24 :

http://promotion.geekbuying.com/promotion/tronsmart_rk3288_mini_pc_release

no gratis distribution, so testers need to pay first, but they receive the whole SDK and sources (to be checked); tester profile was either ROM dev or blogger.

Then when they submit custom rom, they get back all their money,
and also when they write complete reviews;
when the review is so so, they just get some coupons;

I do not know if the whole operation was successfull enough....
at least, no money was lost.

I think there is no miraculous solution.

For Beelink, I still am not confident their R89 will get very soon totally debugged firmware; we are not yet

May I propose that all the people who received their box send them back to Oman or to real ROM devs so that a new batch of testers can try to do better using other procedures and other ...motivation !

[Arbelzapf]

Then when they submit custom rom, they get back all their money,
and also when they write complete reviews;
when the review is so so, they just get some coupons;

This sound less like a "public test" and more like a trade. Not that there was something inherently wrong with that, but the intentions need to be clear

[bluesmanuk]

Think this really going no where..yes some people my not have the experience of others but my oberservation is you need a broad range of testers from Rom creators,Engineering enthuisasts,Tech minded people right down to the end user as theres always room for someone to see things in a different light so to speak and after 30 years of experience..if you have a mix the results will be so much better because then what ever tech your trying to develop will looked at from every possible perspective and the end user when gets the final product can perhaps with some wisdom can see common sense has prevailed right through the Dev process.
You are also forgetting all the delays with actually getting it which is no ones fault but time is precious and again it must be noted we all lead our lives at different paces and as Oman has noted even he may have thought the process through or been allowed to give the project as much time as he would have wanted.

Fair points.

The end users, who just want to plug in and for everything to work are going to be the most critical and their reviews (if they ever get shown) will have a greater determining factor in sales success.