XBMC - Hardware Accelerated Decoding - What works and what doesn't.

[CannaBioD]

new test version for releasable Rockchip libstagefright source code

https://github.com/HermanChen/Rockchip_4.1_release_libstagefright/

And Goham beta3 is coming :

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=152005&pid=1420682#pid1420682

[Abducted]

https://github.com/HermanChen/Rockch...ibstagefright/



And Goham beta3 is coming :

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php...682#pid1420682

[Abducted]

I know that. But both can play media files. One is ancient and slow and the other is new and fast.
So why would the new/fast do less stuff than the old/slow, right?

"My 10 year old electric carving knife slices through a ham like it's butter, but my brand new, high tech, smart phone can't even put a dent in it. Well only if i throw it real hard at it..."

These two devices we're made with a different idea in mind. First of all that ASUS is most likely quite a bit more expensive compared to these stick. Secondly that thing is made for video playback only (pictures and audio maybe too..). While these sticks are complete android mini computers. With the ability to install and run thousands of different apps with different functions. 3D Gaming, internet browsing, office applications, skype (with headset and even webcam support), bittorrent, facebook, youtube... AND on top of all that it can even playback HD video as an extra bonus.

If that media player has a 400mhz CPU, it has nothing to do with video decoding. Like most (if not all) media players it will have a dedicated video decoder chip to do the decoding. Or maybe that video decoder chip runs at 400mhz in which case it's faster compared to the 250mhz the GPU of these RK3066 sticks run at. When using hardware accelerated decoding it's all about GPU speed. An overclocked kernel will run the GPU at 400Mhz and higher (depending on the kernel).

OK. There's another nice point. So all I have to do is load a XAF build and it will be able to do 1080p because it uses ext. player MX player, right?

Yup, that should work.

Can't see why...
When the movie starts to play only the OSD will eat up more cpu/gpu than a standard MX player, right?

Don't know the inner workings of XBMC. But i remember reading on the XBMC forum they use a different method to get the video to be displayed. Not sure if this is because it's a port from other, more advanced OS's or they need to do it like this to make XBMC work (plugins included) and look the way it does. Also remember these HW accel versions of XBMC are very early alpha builds and not even officially released yet.

Don't know if I can follow your ration here.
So, if I try to use libstagefright (instead of XAF, right?) and I play a 1080p movie I will need to overclock?
Well, I don't necessarily need to use libstagefright, I can live with XAF (external player).
Will XAF allow playing 1080p movie without up or downscaling and without overclocking?

1080p can be anything from 1920x800 to 1920x1080, so if you use a HW accel version of XBMC:

- Stock speed 720p kernel: max video resolution 1920x816
- Stock speed 1080p kernel: max video resolution 1280x720
- Overclocked 720p or 1080p kernel: max video resolution 1920x1080

[john3voltas]

"My 10 year old electric carving knife slices through a ham like it's butter, but my brand new, high tech, smart phone can't even put a dent in it. Well only if i throw it real hard at it..."
These two devices we're made with a different idea in mind.

Hey, it's not like they are like a mobile phone and a carving knife or like a shoe and a wrist watch.
It's a bit like oranges and lemons, not like oranges and bananas .
From my point of view, they can both act as HD media players which somehow makes them a bit similar.
And since one is so advanced and the other so out-dated, I (an ignorant) would expect the advanced one to easily out-perform the out-dated easily on most technical items.

First of all that ASUS is most likely quite a bit more expensive compared to these stick.

IMHO not quite. I bought my Asus for 69,99€ while a Minix G4 costs 38,50€. If I buy a decent remote controller to use with the Minix G4, say an RC11, it will cost me another 15,50€. That's 70€ against 54€. Indeed, there is a difference but I wouldn't call it a big difference.

Secondly that thing is made for video playback only (pictures and audio maybe too..). While these sticks are complete android mini computers. With the ability to install and run thousands of different apps with different functions. 3D Gaming, internet browsing, office applications, skype (with headset and even webcam support), bittorrent, facebook, youtube... AND on top of all that it can even playback HD video as an extra bonus.

I can watch youtube and run transmission (torrent client) on the Asus. As I said, it's not just a media player BUT I agree that the android stick can do much-much more than the Asus.

Bottom line, I do agree with you but I find that the difference between both these gadgets is not as big as you're implying.

So let me try to present my case about the android stick before I buy it. I'm all for the web browsing, the 3d games and the office applications but in the end I will use it more frequently as a high definition media player.
I would like to play full hd content without up/down scaling with subtitles from a DLNA server using XBMC. Also, I would like to use it as a live tv client from a tvheadend server (similar to VDR) and I would like to use SportsDevil plugin to watch some sports once in a while.
On top of that, I don't mind using an external player and I would highly prefer to NOT overclock the stick because I usually have bad luck doing such things.
Can I do all this with, say, XAF builds? Is libstagefright better than XAF? Will it skip frames on full hd content with any of these builds?
Sorry for being such a big PITA
Cheers

[Abducted]

That ASUS media player is cheaper than i thought.

Anyway, yes you should be able to play full 1080p movies without downscaling if you use a 1080p kernel.

As for the rest... Again i have absolutely no experience with XAF version of XBMC. I know it uses an external player and because of that has some limitations. I would assume playing files over DLNA would work just fine, if the subtitles are muxed into the file that would be no problem either. How those external players work with seperate remote subtitles files i have no idea. The live TV client and sportsdevil plugin might not work when using an external player, then again... maybe it does. Maybe somebody else here can answer these question for you, or maybe you can find the answer on the xbmcandroid.com forum.

As for the question is XAF version better compared to the HW accel version of XBMC. That's the same as asking, is an apple better than an orange?
I guess that all depends what you use it for.

[john3voltas]

Thanks mate.
I guess I'll try to get some more answers about XAF in xbmcandroid forum, then.
Thanks a bunch.
Cheers

[CannaBioD]

judder / frequency problem

I am using XBMC for android for a couple of months now and yesterday I have encountered the "judder" problem.

MK808 (blue PCB).
I use the 19 Feb hwwaccel (Alpha1) XBMC.
Rockchip 15 march libstagefright.
Advanced XML (hardware render all codecs).
HQ 2.2A power supply.
HQ HDMI Cable.

I never had any real problems until I connected my MK808 to my 400Hz TV (LG42LM620S).
XBMC doesn't drop frames, CPU load is low +/-30% but the image is jerky.

This problem was noticed by a lot of users but this was the first time I personal encountered this problem. The movies where unwatchable on my 400Hz TV (LG42LM620S).

I first only used a 50Hz TV (Philips 37PFL5603D/10) and the judder was barely noticeable and movies can be watched enjoyable.

I think it has to do with 400Hz TV is a software trick, the LG doesn't have a 400Hz panel but the internal LG software scales 50Hz to 400Hz so it makes up his own "between" frames. On every frame displaying the LG software creates 3 extra frames for more smoothness.
If there's a little corrupt frame once in a while the 400Hz duplicates it and it results in unwatchable movie.

I also have used XBMC on PC and Xbox the past 10 years and I never encountered judder.

Maybe the new libstagefright+Gotham Alpha3 solves this problem. Or is this a RK3066 shortcoming?

I only have this problem playing video
(MX / BS / standard player also) if I listen to music and use full screen projectM (milk drop visual) it does not judder or jerk. So the GPU is not the problem I think there must be a VPU problem.

[opengl1971]

My test results:

My test results after doing the libstagefright and xml fix
as well as overclocking the GPU to 466mhz:

720p on 1080p kernel ->ok

1080p on 1080p kernel (low-normal bitrate) ->ok but only when the ui is not shown ,
When the ui is shown there are lots of frame drops also slow seeking performance
+ some artifacts during seeking.

1080p on 1080p kerne(High bitrate = above 40 mbits/s) -> drops frames badly even when
Put the cpu to hot plug mode and needless to say when the ui is shown the dropping gets worse.

The problem in my opinion is that libstagefright is relying on omx components library which i Saw the rockship isn't very happy with as if i remember correctly adds some software layers Above the Video hardware acceleration layer that leads to performance degradation
Compared to The native Video acceleration.

But i can see some hope now that the libstagefright source is published so if someone can Enhance it we may see libstagefright performance that is close to the native one.

[PMisYMMV]

Thank you for this. My HD movies play without stutter. I was cursing myself why bought mk808b for XBMC, but was trying to retire my old P4 PC with DVI port from 2000, which also has the HD stuttering problem.

BTW, Would anyone if there is a similar fix for old Windows to force GPU decoding as suggested here for android.

[CannaBioD]

Thank you for this. My HD movies play without stutter. I was cursing myself why bought mk808b for XBMC, but was trying to retire my old P4 PC with DVI port from 2000, which also has the HD stuttering problem.

BTW, Would anyone if there is a similar fix for old Windows to force GPU decoding as suggested here for android.

*Use 19 Feb hwwaccel version XBMC.
(http://mirrors.xbmc.org/test-builds/...rmeabi-v7a.apk).

* Use 15 march libstagefrightpatch.
(Build in 1.7c Finless MK808 ROM or install with CWM).

* Use advanced.XML for unlocking all hwwaccel codecs.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-F17XK308cbRGpJN3JLbHdQdUE/edit?usp=drive_web

* Use overclocked kernel.
(2dark 1.4 www.allminipc.com)


I do not have a stuttering problem, I have judder problems.
Most content plays fine without dropping frames.

[Abducted]

BTW, Would anyone if there is a similar fix for old Windows to force GPU decoding as suggested here for android.

Depends on the GFX card you're using. But XP support DXVA and Vista and up supports DXVA2. So if you have a GFX card that can handle it or an nVidia card with CUDA support you can get GPU accelerated decoding.

[PMisYMMV]

Depends on the GFX card you're using. But XP support DXVA and Vista and up supports DXVA2. So if you have a GFX card that can handle it or an nVidia card with CUDA support you can get GPU accelerated decoding.

I am sorry I dont mean to hijack it here, but you seem knowledgeable (you know how hard that is to find you guys on these matters), I have nVidia card, how do I know it has CUDA support or not, if yes how can I get GPU accelerated decoding, is it some thing in advancedsettings? Can you please point me if this is answered somewhere?

[Abducted]

Send me a personal message with the GFX card type (like 8800GT or something like that) and i'll check if that GFX card supports it and if so i'll tell you how to enable it. It's not that hard IF it supports it. Just a matter of installing the right (free) decoders and if you use Win7 making sure Win7 uses those decoders.

P.s. also tell me what OS you're using.

BTW, for XBMC with GPU accelerated decoding under windows you need at least Vista. But for GPU accelerated decoding in, for example, windows media player windows XP is fine too.

[Abducted]

*Use 19 Feb hwwaccel version XBMC.
(http://mirrors.xbmc.org/test-builds/...rmeabi-v7a.apk).

* Use 15 march libstagefrightpatch.
(Build in 1.7c Finless MK808 ROM or install with CWM).

* Use advanced.XML for unlocking all hwwaccel codecs.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-F17XK308cbRGpJN3JLbHdQdUE/edit?usp=drive_web

* Use overclocked kernel.
(2dark 1.4 www.allminipc.com)


I do not have a stuttering problem, I have judder problems.
Most content plays fine without dropping frames.

I agree, except that overclock kernel is for MK808 only Will also work on (most) MK808B but your WIFI and BT wont work.
There is also an overclock kernel for the UG802 which might also work on Minix Neo G4 and Rikomagic MK802 III. It also works on my UG007-II (and probably also iMito MX1/2 andRikomagic MK802 IIIS) except again without the WIFI and BT working.

[CannaBioD]

judder

The current Finless 1.7c rom with 2dark4u 1.4 or 1.5 kernel potentially has enough power to run some 1080p content, or at least mostly without dropping frames.

On the other side a 1080p rom/kernel playing a 1080p matroska container encoded in h264 results in terrible judder.

At first I was oblivious to this problem but after testing 3 different MK808 sticks on 3 different TV`s, I have to confess there is something wrong...

I have used offline content (NAS and USB HDD) and online content (Mash Up, Navi-X).



Test was performed on MK808, Finless 1.7c, 2dark4u 1.5 Beta1 kernel. (1920x1080x60Hz).
On this TV`s : LG42LM620S & 37PFL5603D & 30"SonyBravia.
SetCPU 1,4GHz / performance.

I have tested multiple 1080p files and this is just 1 example :


BBC Earth - Life - Deel.01 - 1080x264.Ook NL.Audio

Format : Matroska
File size : 5.14 GiB
Duration : 47mn 54s
Overall bit rate : 15.4 Mbps
Writing application : mkvmerge v3.3.0
Writing library : libebml v0.8.0 + libmatroska v0.9.0

Video
Format : AVC
Format profile : [email protected]
Bit rate : 14.0 Mbps
Nominal bit rate : 14.1 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Writing library : x264 core 104 r1683 62997d6

Audio
Format : AC-3
Bit rate : 640 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Surround: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Title : Engels DD5.1
Language : English

Audio
Format : AC-3
Bit rate : 448 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Surround: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Title : Nederlands
Language : Dutch




MK808 Video playback :

When using MX player(H/W) - Judder but watchable.
When using BS player - Judder but watchable.
When using standard player - Noticable judder but somewhat watchable.
When using XBMC Android (19febBuild) - massive judder/Massive framedrops(251 in 1 minute). Totaly unwatchable.



Non-MK808 Video Playback :

When Using buildin LG620s mediaplayer - Perfect, supersmooth, not a single judder.
When using XBMC on Windows7 - Perfect, supersmooth, not a single judder.




Problems are about the same with all the 1080p content I have tested with 1080p MK808.
It seems to be not a XBMC problem but a RK3066 problem. The bigger or higher quality the TV is the more you will notice judder. Some people look more critical than other people so while some people are experiencing it as nice and smooth other more critical people could have the feeling of epileptic seizure from judder. So this discussion can be about "taste and opinions" but judder=judder. Some people look through it and others get really annoyed.


After my latest tests this weekend my conclusion is that there is a RK3066 videoproblem.
I always had the idea that there was something wrong with the videoplayback on RK3066 systems but I never could put my finger on the exact problem.

So for now I use my MK808`s on 720p ROM+Kernel.
For 1080p content I use my PC XBMC or build in LG mediaplayer.

I also used a Mygica a11 with native XBMC hardware support and the Mygica does not have any of this nasty problems + it has (AC3/DTS) passthrough.

This is probably going to be my last MK808 / RK3066 XBMC test, I will continue my XBMC quest on M3 and M6 amlogic boxes.

I love my MK808 for lots of things but videoplayback is not one of them.


On 720p ROMs/kernels, videoplayback is acceptable but on 1080p there are to many MKV`s having massive judder.

When you see multiple mediaplayers next to each other you definitely see that the rockchipsticks MK808/UG802 etc. looks far less fluid/smooth than for example XBMC-PC, Buildin LG mediaplayer, Mygica A11, Xbox 360, PS3 or O!Play HD2.

I know that is hard to compair this kind of hardware but in the discussion of video playback quality the rk3066 in my opinion clearly fails.

If you look at affordability, M3 and M6 Soc is just as affordable as RK3066.