Geekbuying and Bob et al

[Finless]

Not saying there is no excuse.... But it is what it is. People have said this very thing for a long time yet nothing changes. Again I believe it is due to a fragmented development process.

I have always said to people looking to buy a tablet for instance, if you want reliability with minimal customization abaility, buy an iOS device. It has no fragmented development! It just works and because it is not customizable, there are no alternative expectations! You get what you get period!
If you want something more open, customizable, etc then get Android but be ready for bugs or a less polished user experience.

State what you like about excuses but I do not believe Android devices will ever change in this matter UNLESS someone takes over the OS and closes it. My experience finds that having a open OS like this will just never be as stable as a closed OS. But with that said, some geeks like me will never want a closed OS and prefer this model. This is debated all the time.

As far as lobbying for change here. Have it at. Seems most people do not care and thus don't jump on this bandwagon! Over and over I have seen these very same posts everywhere and not just TV devices!
Same thing with people wanting to lobby these companies for GPL licensing requirements and releasing sources. Many complain but most do nothing about it. People keep buying the devices even knowing about these issues. Until that changes, rants fall on deaf ears!

All that we have right now is Geekbuying telling Tronsmart what the problems are. Personally, Tronsmart should be HERE responding or responding on their own Facebook page. Alas I doubt they ever will. Geekbuying cant make them do anything! The only pressure they have is to stop buying the product and selling it. But do you think that will help? Nope... someone else will just pick up the slack left by geekbuying and it will stop nothing. Is that the right answer? No... but again it is the facts of life here. People will still buy this stuff even if it is just hobbyists like me.

Bob

[JDfense]

My post don't was about yours, sorry if I miss something cause english is not my nature language, I am refering other post specifically, and yes I am with your view, factory released products without been tested, but this is not specific with those sticks, I have a Xperia S top phone when it was released and with some greats bugs, but it is our fault too, cause we want the newest, and we buy unfinished products.

I agree leolas. Major company do not a better job.

Product cycles are getting shorter and shorter. New products are coming faster, but they are not ready and the companies do not support them enough.
My samsung galaxy ace 2 is about a year on the market and there is still no official Jellybean for germany, only Portugal has it so fare and it is not complete. Still some trouble with the RAM use. I stay with stable and fast gingerbread or I use JB with some trouble.

So why should the chinese guys any better and how do you want to give them enough reason to support their devices better?
Price is always a important reason to buy or not Support quality comes later - much later in your decision..

JDfense

[alwaysbless]

Bob said it best, all of these rk3188 devices are going to be just as crappy as the rk3066/mk808 was when it first released. Which means check back in 3-4 months and there MIGHT be a working rom for it.

[crystawth]

Well I can only hope that Android develops like linux did.

Now days, even with all the different distros out there, Linux works. And works quite well. Sure it has a learning curve, but every new thing does at some point.

[Finless]

Well I can only hope that Android develops like linux did.

Now days, even with all the different distros out there, Linux works. And works quite well. Sure it has a learning curve, but every new thing does at some point.

We for sure can hope.... But knowing Linux vs Android. Android deviated long ago to the basic structure of Linux. Mainly around the kernel. Every release of Android more and more stuff is in the kernel now. Linux is stable because of the minimal kernel and the distro plugs in stuff. If it's destabilizes, the modules are simply removed if needed. Android is not the same anymore! Now the framework of the Android system is very closely tied to the kernel! So they are going in a wrong direction? Possibly.

Bob

[crystawth]

I would have to agree that this is a BAD way to code the OS.

Having a modularized OS makes way more sense, and would allow for much easier correcting of problems. =/

Make the kernel too big and do too much and you'll just bog down the whole system.. Not to mention the instabilities that we experience.

I say build a lean mean high performance machine of a kernel and build everything else around it. but alas.. who am i but a lowly consumer.

[AlbaJoe]

BIG LOL, please, if companies like Samsung and Sony releases their products with some bugs, what do you expect about this cheaps devices?
Geekbuying at least try to help with the problems. And they are only a reseller that try to contact factory to solve our problems. Every new device to arrive market is usual that comes with some bugs, if we don't want them, we must wait untill the device get enough tested.
And I never get any present for geekbuying, but is not fare to complain about geekbuying than comes here only to help us, and sometimes gives Bob some devices so he can make customs roms for us.
If you want devices with 0 bugs then you must buy devices 2 years old and with a great testing comunity.
Complain about rockchip that don't complain gpl, complain to them that don't share the sources. Don't complain with the shops that only pretend to give some support, are better all those Chinese stores that only sell the product and one is selled forget the customer?
We get from geekbuying yesterday a new firmware for a 1 year device old mk808b, they are triying to suport the devices they sell. So please complain about rockchip and not about the little shop.

OK I will assume its directed at myself then.

Yes Geekbuying is making an effort but they cannot "ADVERTISE" themselves as having influence etc with the manufacturers and thereby drawing consumers to them for sales under the illusion they are getting a better product and not fully and properly take a grasp of this situation.

As said before we all expect a learning curve but this curve is like a bloody bath tub curve right now and we the consumer are entitled to expect something a bit better than "wait for bob" "we told the manfacturer to add a crappy heatsink" "no audio". Seriously ? you think that is acceptable

And you are way off regards the suppliers responsibility. Not sure how it works in your country but if I have a faulty product I go straight to the shop I bought it from i.e. the supplier/distributor. I dont give a toss in France about the manufacturer at that point because I paid the supplier ..... not the manufacturer so as far as I am concerned thats where the story starts and stops.

You also cannot state that these are "cheap". Cost is all relative from the perspective of what the consumer can afford. I am sure geekbuying do pretty well out of them hence their reps coming to sites like this.

I wouldnt have a problem if it were minor glitches but this is bordering on functionally inept.

So a BIG LOL to those early adopters for spending their cash on a cheap $100 item.

[AlbaJoe]

This thread would be better served by Geekbuying taking onboard my suggestions.

I understand some of you accept it and maybe actually enjoy going through the lengthy process of getting a decent product after multiple firmware updates and getting the oppurtunity to get the old solder iron out.

But that is not how it should be and certainly shouldnt be accepted as part of the fun. Many people will have jumped in not knowing the nuclear core tucked behind their telly doesnt have long to go. I was looking at that thread i quoted earlier and amazed at the lengths people are having to go to to get this unit functional. The exact same can be said for the earlier models and wifi etc .... "get a solder gun" "antenna earthing" etc.

Dont get me wrong I have been an early adopter for many things and yes there will be bugs but I cant remember ever having to break open the casing and get my solder gun out.

Geekbuying have an oppurtunity to demonstrate here and now as a major supplier of these items that they will take control of the situation in as far as they can. Which in my opinion is probably further than we realize. They do that then I will believe the hype that they are proactive and will most certainly give them my business. I am eager to spend my money but I have no intention in taking a match to it.

Sorry if this has caused a stir or any division but surely a proffesional transparent approach will serve us all better.

[AlbaJoe]

Agreed. The product page on geekbuying.com should at least be honest with its consumers and include a list of known issues with a particular device. Update that list with fixes etc as they become available. If the device has too many issues, stop selling it, offer refunds and earn/save the respect of your customer base. If you refuse to sell a device from a distributer because of quality, then the factory will eventually listen.

Exactly !

[AlbaJoe]

All I can say is welcome to Android!

If every Android product that came out did not have issues, then web sites like
xda-developers.com
androidforums
and the list goes on and on.....
So what your complaining about is more the NORM for Android devices than you think.

These companies are not only dealing with new hardware but also a new Android OS release every 3 months!
And every release has bugs from the start in the base code from Google. Then they have to try and tune the ROM to the hardware or special use. Android OS was developed for phones! Only recently did Google start adding real support for tablets. TV sticks? Well that's new too with limited support by Google.... The OS was hacked to make it work as a TV player in ICS. Only recently has Google themselves started adding support in the base OS for a TV device special use.

Personally, this is not just about one manufacturer. It's about a chip maker (like Rockchip) releasing a SOC and a basic generic ROM that then the manufacturer tunes for specific hardware. And trust me most of what they do is just add drivers, etc for the specific hardware.

As I said before. We are starting over with this new hardware from a generic base Google 4.2.2 code! All the goodies that have been added to 3066 devices took time! When the MK808 first came out it was almost identical to what we have now on these 3188 devices! A generic ROM customized to work as a TV player OS.
By the way if you look back to august of last year. All the new 3066 devices had almost 100% the same issues.
Limited camera support
Bugs and stability issues
Wifi problems
Skipping and stuttering video playback
Limited driver support for USB devices
HEAT PROBLEMS! Yes heat problems! So this is not new
Crappy power supplies and power supply issues

The list is the same! Oh and back then guys would write long complaint posts just like this thread about releasing a product too early and they wont buy. Go look if you do not believe me. Total De Ja Vous (I think that's how you spell it )

So what WE have here is a very fragmented development process! Again I will summarize why.
We have Google making a generic AOSP and AKOP OS.
We have a chip maker taking that and making it work on their hardware generically.
We have manufacturers of devices using the above and customizing it for their final device.
Then we have the Android community customizing all this to what WE THINK it should work like.

Again I say the Android community would not be as big as it is if Android devices were like Apple iOS!
Only the larger companies with big money behind them spend the time to try as best as possible to polish a ROM for the consumer. These smaller companies just don't do it and never have!

So fact of life here.... As someone said above. Don't buy an Android device until it has been out for a while. Your always a BETA tester! And even then most people are running a "user" customized ROM anyway!

my .000002 cents.

Bob

Yes pretty sure its deja vous but that doesnt make it any more pallatible for anyone and surely they need to start learning from their mistakes rather than repeating them and in cases making them worse. Why if "they had the heating issue before" ... would they ship the units without heatsinks?

Its fair enough defending them but ultimately its a losing battle and "threads like this" will not go away until they take a better approach to this.

And many of your points revolve around the software and coding which I suppose over the period can be changed and improved. But I do not expect to have to open the casing to get it to work properly. If that is the case then it should be made clear that the product you are buying may and probably does have issues and "BUY AT YOUR OWN RISK". It should not be sold as a complete product knowing its pants.

Respect to you and the others for your efforts but sorry its just not good enough if you endorse a product that is so flawed.

If its a work in progress product then that should be cleary labelled. Better still .... take onboard the early product issues, eliminate these ...... and then .... only then .... release it to the community for modding.

[clarkss12]

Needs work

I hope the next firmware will address the following problems.
1. Ethernet will not stay connected with the usb/ethernet adapter. Also, there is no indication where to enable or disable the ethernet connection. Firmware 4.2. When I connect the ethernet adapter to the T428, it will work for a couple of hours and then disappears, and the wireless takes over.
2 wifi adapter does not work the way it should. firmware 4.1 and 4.2. It can not maintain a constant connection.
3. No audio out on firmware 4.1.1. but works on 4.2 (both Finless Bob's firmware)
4. Video problem with 4.2 going through a hdmi switch to an A/V receiver. Works great with firmware 4.1

A month ago I purchased a MK 818B from geekbuying and it came with firmware 4.1 and has worked flawlessly.

[Spotopolis]

All I can think of when I see threads like this...

[pe1dnn]

Come on!

I'm new on FreakTab and just orderd my first device (MK808B) from GeekBuying and was looking at the activity of user geekbuying on the forum when I found this thread. It raised a few eyebrows to say the least.

Although I only ordered my device last week and it has not even been shipped, this thread confirms my feeling about GeekBuying which is apparently is not appreciated by all of you. I think the offer from GeekBuying to undo the purchase if you are not happy with it due to the current bugs is the only customer friendly action they can take. When I read it I was pleased by this response because it is the only thing they can do for sure right now. However some of you seem to think they can force the factory to solve your problem immediately while in fact all they can do is put pressure on them and await a fix.

Then my few cents about the quality issues. Of course you can demand a good quality tested product from the manufacturer. But be realistic, all quality comes with a price. Comparing these Chinese manufacturers with A brand companies is unfair. An A brand company cannot afford bad quality as it will ruin their name and their place in the market. But it has a price, the extra testing and quality assurance will add to the price tag, you pay much more for an A brand. The Chinese companies however have not yet earned a market position like that; if they would sell goods at A brand prices, you would not purchase any from them. So they are cheap and this price had its price: testing and quality control.

Fortunately lack of quality and testing are both are handled pritty well by the community. You have to be aware of this, but frankly the price tag is a dead give away. How could it be any other way? And if you expected anything else the offer to return the product is definitely a good solution. Do not expect Apple TV like quality at a rock bottom price.

Finally, rest assured that these Chinese companies will eventually catch up with quality control and testing, because in the long run they need it to build brands to survive. At that time they will also be forced to respect the software licenses. And of course the prices will go up. Compare this to the past development of the Japanese (this was considered copycat junk in the past and now it is a symbol for quality) and the Koreans (remember Goldstar?; its now LG and a very respectable company with high quality products). The same will happen to the Chinese and some of them are already building their name and deliver good quality like Huawei.

Anyway, do not expect miracles like some of you in this thread seem to do. Currently new devices appear premature on the marked (ready but not finished) and will need fixes like alternative roms, Wifi mods etc. If you like a finished product, buy an A brand device (which by the way also locks you out of any home-brew development, something which for me make these devices fun).

My first posting here and a bit lengthy, sorry about that!

[AlbaJoe]

I'm new on FreakTab and just orderd my first device (MK808B) from GeekBuying and was looking at the activity of user geekbuying on the forum when I found this thread. It raised a few eyebrows to say the least.

Although I only ordered my device last week and it has not even been shipped, this thread confirms my feeling about GeekBuying which is apparently is not appreciated by all of you. I think the offer from GeekBuying to undo the purchase if you are not happy with it due to the current bugs is the only customer friendly action they can take. When I read it I was pleased by this response because it is the only thing they can do for sure right now. However some of you seem to think they can force the factory to solve your problem immediately while in fact all they can do is put pressure on them and await a fix.

Then my few cents about the quality issues. Of course you can demand a good quality tested product from the manufacturer. But be realistic, all quality comes with a price. Comparing these Chinese manufacturers with A brand companies is unfair. An A brand company cannot afford bad quality as it will ruin their name and their place in the market. But it has a price, the extra testing and quality assurance will add to the price tag, you pay much more for an A brand. The Chinese companies however have not yet earned a market position like that; if they would sell goods at A brand prices, you would not purchase any from them. So they are cheap and this price had its price: testing and quality control.

Fortunately lack of quality and testing are both are handled pritty well by the community. You have to be aware of this, but frankly the price tag is a dead give away. How could it be any other way? And if you expected anything else the offer to return the product is definitely a good solution. Do not expect Apple TV like quality at a rock bottom price.

Finally, rest assured that these Chinese companies will eventually catch up with quality control and testing, because in the long run they need it to build brands to survive. At that time they will also be forced to respect the software licenses. And of course the prices will go up. Compare this to the past development of the Japanese (this was considered copycat junk in the past and now it is a symbol for quality) and the Koreans (remember Goldstar?; its now LG and a very respectable company with high quality products). The same will happen to the Chinese and some of them are already building their name and deliver good quality like Huawei.

Anyway, do not expect miracles like some of you in this thread seem to do. Currently new devices appear premature on the marked (ready but not finished) and will need fixes like alternative roms, Wifi mods etc. If you like a finished product, buy an A brand device (which by the way also locks you out of any home-brew development, something which for me make these devices fun).

My first posting here and a bit lengthy, sorry about that!

I agree and disagree with you. I agree the chinese market is most certainly finding its way and I fully expect it to become high end in the near future. Pretty sure some of the brands you raise are already operating out of that region.

But assuming we are only talking about these smaller independent Chinese manufacturers. How do you think they get to that point where they can emulate the big boys? by people accepting the issue and not complaining so nobody can hear or take account? .... ultimately they have to listen and as they begin to realize that better quality can also command better retail price then sure things will get more expensive.

But for me the issue is this perception of it being "cheap" and "you takes your chances". I think if they work they are amazing value. But if they dont then that is like wiping your arse with $100.

Unfortunately threads like this turn into people wanting to express frustration and others that are defensive for whatever reason/agenda.

Nobody is saying there is a magic wand but they have to be honest and start somewhere and someone like Geekbuying should think about how they advertise these products. A very simple disclaimer would suffice. "These products are WIP" "There may be problems" "Here are a list of known issues" "We replace/refund no questions asked".

Geekbuying are active on the site which is good but they need to manage the process better and if they have influence with the manufacturer; which is something I have seen them saying/advertising, then please make it transparent and clear. Do that and people can the be expected to "takes your chances" as they are fully informed.

And great if Geekbuying will refund/replace but time is money and if consumers are spending days trying to get things to work that ultimately cannot due to a design issue .... how is that refunded.

Anyway in closing .....

Ironically enough Geekbuying is probably where I will buy from (a few months down the development line now). They at least show a proactive approach compared to some of the shadowy suplliers out there but if they are going to talk the talk then they need to ....

[Finless]

A very simple disclaimer would suffice. "These products are WIP" "There may be problems" "Here are a list of known issues"

Have you ever seen an advertiser ever do this? I have not even from big A companies! They are not going to advertise something and in the process say the product may not work just yet WIP! I have never seen any advertisement that puts out a negative.

I will also say this again. If geekbuying decides to drop selling this unit, TRUST someone else will pick it up, advertise the same way (using manufacturer specs), and probably not support buyers in any way!

I realize you credit geekbuying for being here and participating but realize they do not have to just like 99% of the other China sellers out there don't. This is why we allow them to advertise here on Freaktab. Because they show support for customers as best they can. But I would never expect a business to advertise a negative especially when they did not know there were any negatives until users started reporting them!

Again I think all they can do is stop selling the product. But again worst thing that could happen as someone will pick it up and give no support! It's not a win win for anyone. I think also geekbuying trusts that Tronsmart will fix the issues so in my opinion, this is the best we can hope for right now.

Bob