Geekbuying and Bob et al

[AlbaJoe]

There are muliple reasons why this line of reasoning is flawed. First of all I assume Bob has a job, getting paid by company A, B or C also means committing to reasults. And I seriously doubt they need Bob; there are more than enough talented chinese who could do the same, it is a serious mistake to underestimate the chinese capabilities. But the company needs to invest in those people.

Secondly say party A indeed hires Bob and Bob makes the most splendid ROM ever. Then company B and C clone the harware, steal the ROM and sell it for less because they did nog have to invest in prototypes and paying Bob.

Thirdly, company A will be late to the market. Company B and C already pushed their semi working product. By the time company A is ready the marked is either saturated (all buyers already have one and use publicly made roms) or spoiled (products were so bad, nobody trusts the concept anymore and will not buy the product from company A either).



The only thing needed to grow an "A" class company is time. These companies have to mature and not only the companies themselfs but also the infrastructure like partner companies and last but not least legislation which makes them accountable for bad quality. It is a mistake to think a company can act like that on its own in an environment which is not in line with this way of working. There is a reason why these companies thrive is China but cannot exist in Europe, the USA or Canada. Currently it's the way it is and there is not much you can do about it in the short term except giving feedback and hope some of it will stick. Also a lot of companies will never reach the next maturity level but go broke long before that.

Currently the problem is expectation management. Aparently you expected a different product with different quality and different functionaly compared to what you actually got. These boxes have an auwfull lot of potential but it is not close to plug and play. If you expect plug and play you'll be disapointed because it is not. But if you read about these kinds of products here or elsewhere before buying then your expectations might have been more realistic.

At least you found the forum and lucky enough there is Geekbuying which not only sells the products but also gives support. There is another major Chinese outlet out there selling these units and I have not seen them on this forum and participating to get better ROMs. Instead that outlet is just pushing boxes. The alternative for Geekbuying would leave you empty handed which is far worse than the current status quo.

I did say "consultancy fee" lol i am not Bob's recruitment agent but my point stands. They are making the same mistakes again and Bob and et al do a decent job of fixing them. The incumbent manufacturers/developers etc have not learned since their first itterations so not entirely sure what talent you see in that?

A, B or C getting like trying to watch a pea under a cup. So what your saying is everyone should just release shit and that levels the market? would love to see your company in operation.

I agree they wouldnt cut it in the western markets but that is where they need to aim for. As has been mentioned earlier plenty Asian companies started low and became big .... probably following western models and ethics or they wouldnt be selling in our countries (lol ok maybe a bit dreamy there .... multinational companies and ethics in the same sentence lol). But I dont think you are correct they cannot operate in that environment. They will stand above their competitors of consumers see them making a concious effort. In fact alot of the discussion here revolves around Geekbuying being better than the chinese companies around because they engage on this site. These flaws in thinking are catching .

Yes expectations is a tricky field but my biggest expectation would be not to making the same mistakes they made before and then have a clutch of people running about like headless chickens trying to rework the mess.

And yes I am lucky to find this forum no doubt. Regards Geekbuying well as I keep saying .... if they want to be differentiated from their competitors (something you said earlier they cant do in the chinese market) then they need to prove it and lead the way.

A simple thing like a list of known issues and demonstrate to the consuner they are trying to do something. And if they didnt give back the money or were illegal in their practise ..... pretty sure we wouldnt even be discussing them right now?

[AlbaJoe]

There are muliple reasons why this line of reasoning is flawed. First of all I assume Bob has a job, getting paid by company A, B or C also means committing to reasults. And I seriously doubt they need Bob; there are more than enough talented chinese who could do the same, it is a serious mistake to underestimate the chinese capabilities. But the company needs to invest in those people.

Secondly say party A indeed hires Bob and Bob makes the most splendid ROM ever. Then company B and C clone the harware, steal the ROM and sell it for less because they did nog have to invest in prototypes and paying Bob.

Thirdly, company A will be late to the market. Company B and C already pushed their semi working product. By the time company A is ready the marked is either saturated (all buyers already have one and use publicly made roms) or spoiled (products were so bad, nobody trusts the concept anymore and will not buy the product from company A either).



The only thing needed to grow an "A" class company is time. These companies have to mature and not only the companies themselfs but also the infrastructure like partner companies and last but not least legislation which makes them accountable for bad quality. It is a mistake to think a company can act like that on its own in an environment which is not in line with this way of working. There is a reason why these companies thrive is China but cannot exist in Europe, the USA or Canada. Currently it's the way it is and there is not much you can do about it in the short term except giving feedback and hope some of it will stick. Also a lot of companies will never reach the next maturity level but go broke long before that.

Currently the problem is expectation management. Aparently you expected a different product with different quality and different functionaly compared to what you actually got. These boxes have an auwfull lot of potential but it is not close to plug and play. If you expect plug and play you'll be disapointed because it is not. But if you read about these kinds of products here or elsewhere before buying then your expectations might have been more realistic.

At least you found the forum and lucky enough there is Geekbuying which not only sells the products but also gives support. There is another major Chinese outlet out there selling these units and I have not seen them on this forum and participating to get better ROMs. Instead that outlet is just pushing boxes. The alternative for Geekbuying would leave you empty handed which is far worse than the current status quo.

I did say "consultancy fee" lol i am not Bob's recruitment agent but my point stands. They are making the same mistakes again and Bob and et al do a decent job of fixing them. The incumbent manufacturers/developers etc have not learned since their first itterations so not entirely sure what talent you see in that?

A, B or C getting like trying to watch a pea under a cup. So what your saying is everyone should just release shit and that levels the market? would love to see your company in operation.

I agree they wouldnt cut it in the western markets but that is where they need to aim for. As has been mentioned earlier plenty Asian companies started low and became big .... probably following western models and ethics or they wouldnt be selling in our countries (lol ok maybe a bit dreamy there .... multinational companies and ethics in the same sentence lol). But I dont think you are correct they cannot operate in that environment. They will stand above their competitors of consumers see them making a concious effort. In fact alot of the discussion here revolves around Geekbuying being better than the chinese companies around because they engage on this site. These flaws in thinking are catching .

Yes expectations is a tricky field but my biggest expectation would be not to making the same mistakes they made before and then have a clutch of people running about like headless chickens trying to rework the mess.

And yes I am lucky to find this forum no doubt. Regards Geekbuying well as I keep saying .... if they want to be differentiated from their competitors (something you said earlier they cant do in the chinese market) then they need to prove it and lead the way.

A simple thing like a list of known issues and demonstrate to the consuner they are trying to do something. And if they didnt give back the money or were illegal in their practise ..... pretty sure we wouldnt even be discussing them right now?

[AlbaJoe]

Apologies for double post ... site keeps hanging on me?

[Finless]

Sorry... I always go back to this when convo's continue down the China "get into shape" hole.


[video=youtube]http://youtu.be/OO_Fc-OT1Pg[/video]

Enjoy,
Bob

[AlbaJoe]

@GEEKBUYING

Please dont take this discussion as a personal attack on you. It appears you are trying but if your going to advertise the fact your better than the market around you then I would love to see it clearly demonstrated.

I am not a fanboy and simply a consumer who thinks you can push the envelope a little further.

I mean a thread even on here with a list of issues and what is being done on known issues isnt much effort and I personally would buy from you on that alone.

[Finless]

Sorry... I always go back to this when convo's continue down the China "get into shape" hole.

Enjoy,
Bob

[AlbaJoe]

Hope your not elluding to something sinister there Bob .... most unfortunate if that is the case.

I would suggest you delete this thread as it is clearly getting silly and will reflect badly on you and the site IMHO.

[Finless]

Philosophy and economy!

Philosophy and Economy!

You know... I will just say this.

China is doing well BECAUSE we as consumers are GREEDY! It's our OWN freakin fault this happens!

1) Everyone wants the best price! AND HERE IS THE BAD PART! We want it NOW and we want it with no future thinking like support when we get something that does not meet expectations!

2) MANY are willing to give away the idea of support because MOST PEOPLE don't give a rats ass! They think that is not needed anymore. JUST the best price! Gimme, Gimme, Gimme.....

3) It's a TRASH USE IT AND TOSS IT WORLD.... So many people are willing to THROW IT AWAY if they do not like it. "Ah Well... I bought this crap piece of whatever... Live and learn.." and they TOSS IT and move on...

So Albajoe, I commend your standing fast on your principles! But this little TV stick hole your barking up is part of a MUCH bigger thing going on! If you really want to make something here change, it wont be about this little TV stick device! Maybe become a politician and lobby for change? I dunno... I don't have the answer for you!

THIS IS ALL AROUND US NOW!

Learn to deal with this economic change, China business, etc... Or not! Seems most people seem to do 1-3 above. Your actually a minority! THAT is what needs to change before a simple company like Tronsmart gives you what your looking for. It's just NOT going to happen like how you want it to if EVERYTHING ELSE is going in this direction!

Which oh by the way... IT IS! Customer support even in the West has changed SO MUCH that many products I buy, when I get a idiot on a call center from India asking me to make sure it is plugged in... WTF! I just hang up and figure it out myself.... Customer support... It almost doesn't exist is the west anyway and soon it wont either!

AGAIN WHY? Because the MAJORITY is allowing it to happen AND WHY? For the CHEAPEST PRICE!

If you wait to buy a TV stick with this latest tech, western support, and ready to roll.... I think you will wait a long time! Possibly never... Why? Because the shit will get even worse over time so you will never catch up to your expectations. And it is not because of you yourself. It's because everyone around you is agreeing to the NEW TERMS.

ME? Well I have learned what to expect. I make the choice myself. Does everything I buy meet expectations? Not always but at least when I bought something new for $34.50 and questioned if it was a POS, I am not so disappointed. Then I do something myself (if I can) to make it do what I WANTED IT TO DO... So that's just me...

Sorry... Had to rant yet again.....

Bob

[AlbaJoe]

Philosophy and Economy!

You know... I will just say this.

China is doing well BECAUSE we as consumers are GREEDY! It's our OWN freakin fault this happens!

1) Everyone wants the best price! AND HERE IS THE BAD PART! We want it NOW and we want it with no future thinking like support when we get something that does not meet expectations!

2) MANY are willing to give away the idea of support because MOST PEOPLE don't give a rats ass! They think that is not needed anymore. JUST the best price! Gimme, Gimme, Gimme.....

3) It's a TRASH USE IT AND TOSS IT WORLD.... So many people are willing to THROW IT AWAY if they do not like it. "Ah Well... I bought this crap piece of whatever... Live and learn.." and they TOSS IT and move on...

So Albajoe, I commend your standing fast on your principles! But this little TV stick hole your barking up is part of a MUCH bigger thing going on! If you really want to make something here change, it wont be about this little TV stick device! Maybe become a politician and lobby for change? I dunno... I don't have the answer for you!

THIS IS ALL AROUND US NOW!

Learn to deal with this economic change, China business, etc... Or not! Seems most people seem to do 1-3 above. Your actually a minority! THAT is what needs to change before a simple company like Tronsmart gives you what your looking for. It's just NOT going to happen like how you want it to if EVERYTHING ELSE is going in this direction!

Which oh by the way... IT IS! Customer support even in the West has changed SO MUCH that many products I buy, when I get a idiot on a call center from India asking me to make sure it is plugged in... WTF! I just hang up and figure it out myself.... Customer support... It almost doesn't exist is the west anyway and soon it wont either!

AGAIN WHY? Because the MAJORITY is allowing it to happen AND WHY? For the CHEAPEST PRICE!

If you wait to buy a TV stick with this latest tech, western support, and ready to roll.... I think you will wait a long time! Possibly never... Why? Because the shit will get even worse over time so you will never catch up to your expectations. And it is not because of you yourself. It's because everyone around you is agreeing to the NEW TERMS.

ME? Well I have learned what to expect. I make the choice myself. Does everything I buy meet expectations? Not always but at least when I bought something new for $34.50 and questioned if it was a POS, I am not so disappointed. Then I do something myself (if I can) to make it do what I WANTED IT TO DO... So that's just me...

Sorry... Had to rant yet again.....

Bob

Sorry I am ranted out here .... no energy for it now and lying on floor with chronic indegestion ..... either that or a minor heart attack damn you bacon man !

TBH this is just spinning off into so will have to bite my tongue and stop myself from having to correct you all

And who says i am not a politcian already


I luvs emoticons !

[Finless]

Hope your not elluding to something sinister there Bob .... most unfortunate if that is the case.

I would suggest you delete this thread as it is clearly getting silly and will reflect badly on you and the site IMHO.

Sinister? Me? hahahahaha... you have to be kidding?

If I was to do something "sinster", no one would know about it... I put myself out there 100%. You know who your talking to when you talk to me. I do nothing "sinister".... My heart and soul are on the outside of my body always for all to see. I have no fear thus no sinister ideas.

This was a joke intended to lighten the convo a little and have some fun.

The only people I know that have "sinster intensions" are those that think about "sinister ideas".

Bob

[AlbaJoe]

The only people I know that have "sinster intensions" are those that think about "sinister ideas".

Bob

ha who is the politician now

[Finless]

ha who is the politician now

I am not one but I am pretty sure I could be
Would not be my choice to do so though....
I would have to be brainwashed and somehow forced into lying to people
Not in my nature....

Bob

[AlbaJoe]

I am not one but I am pretty sure I could be
Would not be my choice to do so though....
I would have to be brainwashed and somehow forced into lying to people
Not in my nature....

Bob

ANYBODY could but who on earth would want to be. Politics is boring since the end of the cold war!

In UK its Blue, Red, Yellow ..... as my daddy always said "same shit ..... different colour"

[fwupow]

One day it will be over.

First of all, I am also thankful for the work that Bob does / is doing to get these Sticks into shape. He shouldn't have to to do so much, but that will change.

If it's true that a bunch of manufacturers rely on a common firmware shop, then that's a problem because such a firmware shop just doesn't care so much whether brand X, Y or Z is a success they just wanna get paid their fee and move on to the next one.

American cars sucked Llama poo in the 70s and then came the Hondas and Toyotas and people soon understood what quality control and customer satisfaction was all about and American companies HAD to figure out how to make a quality product or they were gonna loose everything.

The Stick PC / HDMI Stick makers need to take the time to get problems ironed out. It's not hard to put together a checklist of things that should work and work well before the product ships. I mean any one of us here in the forum topic could slap together a good start. Allow me.

1. Netflix & Hulu must work well.
2. XBMC needs to work. prefererably, a pre-installed version with functional H/W decoding
3. Local video playback needs to be smooth up to 1080p at least.
4. Home network streaming of video needs to work well.
5. Strong WiFi performance. (love the 5GHz and 150Mbps)
6. 3D Graphics need to be the best the hardware will allow.
7. Game controller support built-in
8. Skype & webcam support & UVC support as well as provide a listing of supported webcams
9. Bluetooth sound support for Bluetooth headsets and ear pieces.
10. Needs to read FAT32 and NTFS formatted storage devices via USB.

I'm probably forgetting something but if I could have those 10 things working well on a single HDMI stick, I'd be buying a house in Happyville. 10 things isn't very much.

[crystawth]

First of all, I am also thankful for the work that Bob does / is doing to get these Sticks into shape. He shouldn't have to to do so much, but that will change.

If it's true that a bunch of manufacturers rely on a common firmware shop, then that's a problem because such a firmware shop just doesn't care so much whether brand X, Y or Z is a success they just wanna get paid their fee and move on to the next one.

American cars sucked Llama poo in the 70s and then came the Hondas and Toyotas and people soon understood what quality control and customer satisfaction was all about and American companies HAD to figure out how to make a quality product or they were gonna loose everything.

The Stick PC / HDMI Stick makers need to take the time to get problems ironed out. It's not hard to put together a checklist of things that should work and work well before the product ships. I mean any one of us here in the forum topic could slap together a good start. Allow me.

1. Netflix & Hulu must work well.
2. XBMC needs to work. prefererably, a pre-installed version with functional H/W decoding
3. Local video playback needs to be smooth up to 1080p at least.
4. Home network streaming of video needs to work well.
5. Strong WiFi performance. (love the 5GHz and 150Mbps)
6. 3D Graphics need to be the best the hardware will allow.
7. Game controller support built-in
8. Skype & webcam support & UVC support as well as provide a listing of supported webcams
9. Bluetooth sound support for Bluetooth headsets and ear pieces.
10. Needs to read FAT32 and NTFS formatted storage devices via USB.

I'm probably forgetting something but if I could have those 10 things working well on a single HDMI stick, I'd be buying a house in Happyville. 10 things isn't very much.

Your list is quite long.. I have a much more important, SIMPLE list myself..

1. Device must boot and run properly as intended.
2. Device must be stable during general, and even extensive use. (e.g. temperature and performance consistency)


That is my list. I don't care about all the extra junk. If it's new, i understand there will be bugs. If the device runs the way it is suppose to without requiring an extensive overhaul, and performs consistently without overheating or crashing, then that's a damn good start.